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ChoP Discussion

2010-06-24

ChoP vol.1:Zen Lu&Grzegorz Bojanek

Zen Lu: The Chinese audience enjoyed the live performances of Polish artists during the "Polish Sound Art in China" festival. We know that the Polish culture and art has a high status in the world. As a Polish artist, what's your attitude toward Polish art, especially in the field of experimental music and progressive music?

Greg Bojanek: I know, that our experimental artists are known in China, and probably therefore the Polish audience tries to find out more about Chinese music. I don’t know how does it work, but probably it is because of the distance and the culture of both countries. Both countries are so far away from each, and both cultures are so different and diverse that at the same time they attract each other somehow to create a new quality.

It is hard to say, how I perceive Polish experimental music, because in a way I am a part of it, both as a composer and publisher. I know that there is a great number of very young people, who know how to make good music - and they really do it - but the market is concentrated mainly on the “huge” stars promoted by big companies. There are still few people who try to make experimental music more popular in the country. In fact it is a hard work. For me the strangest thing is, that our underground artists are more popular in Europe and other countries, but not in Poland. It is the problem of our mentality and attitude – we simply don’t want to change our habits. Polish listeners are lazy and only a few (probably those who read this interview) try to find out something new, something which makes them think, not just listen.

Is it the same in China? As I did a search on the Internet I found information about many concerts of experimental artists. A lot more than in Poland. Who comes to those concerts – only young people, and who else? Please also tell me as an experimental artist do you live on playing concerts and composing music, or you do it as a hobby only – as it is for most of Polish experimental artists?

Zen Lu: In China, we only have a small audience listening to experimental music right now, because China experimental music is still very young and growing; we don’t have many experimental artists, thus no big audience either, but this will gradually change.  As a result of this, there isn’t much experimental concert in china: for instance, Beijing has three venues which can do experimental performance every week; Shanghai only has such performance sometimes at irregular intervals, other cities have even less! Thus, Beijing is THE major activist city of experimental music in china. The audience comprises mostly of young people there.

I am living and working in Shenzhen, a city near Hong Kong. I work at Shenzhen Economic Daily. My job is data processing or data analysis, so I make and perform music in my free time only. Totally relying on making experimental music to obtain an income here in China is very difficult right now, so I need a job. In fact, this is the same for other experimental artists elsewhere in China: we receive no ART FUND in China, no support whatsoever. We do everything ourselves.

There are many fans of Polish movies in China, and in Poland there are such masters as Krzystof Kieslowski, Roman Polanski, Andrzej Waida. Would you please tell us something about the current status of the movie industry, movie education and the market for movies in your country. Do those masters represent the academist's tradition of Polish movies? Is Poland supporting the development of class movies or just let them be?

Greg Bojanek: The famous artists you’ve mentioned are still very popular in Poland. Almost all young artists who create films say that they are their masters. Although the impact of Kieślowski, Polański and Wajda was very strong on Polish movie industry, there are many young directors who try to find their own way. We have many film festivals, like for example “Era New Horizons” which present young, sometimes even experimental directors. The festival even supports the directors with money. I was watching some of those new films and I must say, that the experimental movies are better and better. You can even read some articles in Polish press that the year 2006 is the year of a huge breakthrough in Polish movie industry. The biggest festival of Polish films, which is held in Gdynia, in September proved that the new generation of Polish filmmakers is stronger and stronger. Just to prove that I have to mention the two best: “Saviour Square” by Krzysztof Krauze and Joanna Kos-Krause or “Wszyscy Jesteśmy Chrystusami” (We are all Christs), by Marek Koterski. 

Personally I am very interested in the Chinese movie industry. I even try to buy whatever comes to our market. This popularity of the Chinese movies started probably with the famous production “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon”. I also love films like “Hero” which actually is one of my best movies ever! It tells people of  the western countries something about the mentality of the proud Chinese nation. But we all know all those big productions. Can you tell me if there are smaller films, with smaller budgets? Are there any young directors who try to experiment with the movies, with the script, with the form, with the pictures? And if there are such directors, do they ask experimental musicians to compose music for their films?

Zen Lu: In the past few years, China have had some small production films with low budgets : Wang Chao , Jia Zhangke , Detvo Cheung , Du Haibin , Cao Fei ……and come forth some young directors like: Jia Zhangke, Du Haibin, Cao Fei, Zhang Yuan, Wang Xiaoshuai, Yu Liwei….

Yes, these directors ask experimental musicians to compose music for their films sometimes, such as the soundtrack for Cao Fei's : Cao invites experimental musician Li Chin Sung to make the soundtrack to .

After the social transformation in Eastern Europe, are there any political restrictions on the arts? Is Polish rock & roll influenced by traditional folk music of the West?

Greg Bojanek: The political transformation brought us total freedom. There is no censorship, and people are free to perform what they want. Sometimes some modern art galleries may have problems but connected rather with the church and moral aspects of the art they show, but generally speaking, there are no major problems. We are free to do what we want. But still it is true that there are not many supporters of the artists who create “difficult” art. And the government is rather not interested in what independent musicians do. But still they can use modern media, especially internet sites, like MySpace, or independent net-labels, to show and sometimes even sell their art.

It is hard to say, if Polish rock & roll has been influenced by our folk music. There is a whole genre which appeared a few years ago which we can call modern-folk. There are many modern-folk bands who sell thousands of records and have huge concerts. So I can say that yes, it is influenced.

But coming back to political transformation. It is interesting that China, although it is still a communist country, has so many young people who can create independent art. Is there a censorship in China? Does Chinese government somehow control young artists? Is there some kind of surveillance system which the government can use to control them? Can you give some examples???

Zen Lu: In China, artists often do not have enough free space to create their art like movie or music.China is a socialistic country right now, the country has many institutions nationwide that restricts young artists to develop unalloyed art (art that is relevant to politics). The government only likes you to create a merchandise, but not political stuff. The State Administration of Radio Film and Television is a surveillance system and controls movies. Just this year, a Chinese young director named LOU Se brings his new film  to join Cannes Film Festival. The people very much like the film. When LOU returned to China, the State Administration of Radio Film and Television told him he could not do film work in 5 years until 2011 year, because LOU Ye did not put his new film to join Film Festival via the surveillance system. And there are more examples like this about china films…

In music, the government will also censor your lyrics and cover art. The lyrics must not contain political ideas, the cover must be without eroticism, just like these…

How many young experimental musicians are there in Poland? How about your interaction with fellow artists in your country? A lot of experimental concerts? Also where do you play live: at an art space, or a club or a gallery?

Greg Bojanek: Sometimes I think that there are more experimental musicians in Poland than listeners. This may sound strange, but yes, almost all of the listeners try to create music on their own. I can tell that the youngest generation of the computer freaks is the most active in this field. But still many young people have never heard about experimental sounds, because pop music is all around them on TV and radio, both state and commercial. Generally, we contact each other via Internet. There are some forums where we can exchange our knowledge and experiences. When I think about places where young musicians play, I would say clubs. But there are also some galleries of modern art which invite them to perform.

Now we are working on the project which connects our remote worlds: the world of the Far East and the world of Central Europe. We have different cultures, different history, different experiences, but still the music which is created by us has so many things in common. People say it is organic ambient. How much do you like the music which we were able to make together? Can you say that the experience of working together makes you understand people who live in Poland better?

Zen Lu: I think music is an international language, notwithstanding I'm in China and you in Poland, but we can look for a common ground via music. The collision as well as interexchange of Eastern and Western cutlure is a very interesting thing.

ChoP vol.4:KLC_NIR &Nejmano

Nejmano’s Answer

1.What is your name?
Maciek

2.What is your occupation?
I am a musican and sound engeeiner

3.Where were you born? Where was the most influenced place (the environment) to you? Why?
I was born in Poland – Gdansk. It's difficult to say about one place in our live – any place influencing for us somehow. But if I had choose one of them – maybe London City – I remember that was unbeliveble feeling when I saw such a lot of people – mixed cultures, such a lot of colours, many many surrounding sounds – Yes – that was one of the most influenced place in my life.

4.When did you start love music? And Try to make it yourself?
Hmm – since I remember I was playing on some instruments. I finished music school, music academy, and now I making music – this is what I loving make the best.

5.When did you started on attempting to make experimental music/sound art? What happen to you that time to make you feel like have to attempt in doing so?
What I doing now, began when I was in Academy playing the clarinet. Then I had already knew that I dont want to be a classical musician, and classical sounds doesnt interesting me as a new sounds, something fresh. Then I started looking for something more than a traditional instruments like clarinet or piano.
I dont like classical way of playing music – composing my own music, looking for new sounds is the only way to express yourself – that was the reason why I experimenting with music.

6.What do you think of Sound art? What is your definition? And Experimental music also?
Definition of Sound art is simply for me – its strictly expressions in the sounds. If I hear trully emotions in the music this is sound art for me. Exactly as in all of sphere of life.

7.What kind of things are you interested in, i.e. could be sounds, music, philosophy, behaviors, books, films and other materials which especially can inspired your works directly? Why?
I like very much books, movies, listening other music, but the most inspirations for me is just curiosity of creating.

8.How do Polish people like music? What kind of music do they listen frequently? What are their attitude to the new music or sound Art?
In Poland there is a lot of people not interesting in music – generally in art, they arent looking for something special for yourself, something new, so their listening, what is in TV or radio – commercial POP, or something.
But since some time I see that sensibility of younger people is growing up – so we have more & more interesting festivals, more and more rare cd's in the shops. But I think that is just beginning of that.

9.How do you think about the landscape of music/sound art in future?
I think music now become to be not only music – more often music is connecting with other media – visual art or something. People are still experimenting, looking for new things, so I think this would be direction of music for nearest years. I dont know excatly – I am curios as You:)

10.I have heard from you that your new album is in processing. How is it like? Could you introduce it briefly?
My first album is almost finished. I think it would be interesting becouse of time of creating. I recorded the material for this album for two years, some tracks are from two years ago, some are from now, so its something like long review:) I want release this album very much, and begin to work for a new material.

11.What else would you do beside music?
I work, rest, read a books, meet with friends, watch movies.

KLC_NIR’s Answer

1.What do you think about Poland and Polish people?
As I have heard from books, TV, internet and people who have been to Poland, for me, the impression about Poland and Polish people was music and art. Musicians are always indispensably and involved into different areas—classical, modernistic, avant-garde and etc. Poland is special, especially for those creative and imaginative people. Its passion, creative and independence bring up these. The country is happy to support art and artists, as I have heard from one of my friend that there are funds for musicians, good places for performance and universities are opened always for artists to rent equipments and make researches. This is very good. People who living in such a fascinated country, I can imagine how artistic they are.

2.What do you think about Polish electronic music? What projects do you know?
There are many creative and independent musicians to contribute in this field of art. They are much activated and caused many culture exchange events in the latest years. As a result, I am lucky enough to know polish arts. Such as Łódź Biennale, Polish art in China, and now we have ChoP project.

3.What equipments do you have when composing and making music? And what equipments do you have when playing live?
I have laptop, guitar, pedals, pipes and other little instruments I can make sounds. In the past live performances, I have used guitar + laptop + pedals + software effects. It could be more interesting to explore more DIY equipments to use in the future composing and live.

4.What kind of music do you expect about our Chop – rather chill and easy or rather something experimental and noisy?
I would like experimental and Lo-Fi stuff, but not to make it purposely. I hope our project is a random crash. I make what I have thought currently, you make what you are thinking all these days, and then we use cut and paste, distort or recompose each others materials. I think this is a kind of way to exchange our cultures—although it cannot presents all of our both cultures; those sounds/materials which we will have made are the sediment of our outside culture environment and could also reflect the whole culture in some kind of ways. In addition, I do not want to dangle after a specific or interested style on purpose. I want the project is promiscuous, comprehensive, and full of multi-contents reflection. For example, I hope I can perceive the pressure when I listen to the album in a loud volume, or meditate when listening in a faint volume. It can also turn to a proper volume that melts into the sound of environment to balance everything as a whole and let listeners feeling all of these equal sounds. I would like to fall asleep, or awake. Of course, this is an ambition. So, let it be. Cause we do not know how is the album will like, maybe bad than we propose. I do not want to do it once I feel I have pressure, you know, it could turn something really bad sometimes.

5.When did you start composing music and why you choose a computer technology to make it?
When I was 17 (after I have learned how to play acoustic guitar), I wrote some folk and rhythm songs. It was limited by what I have heard that time. Then after time passes, I am now standing on my position. It is not to make it on purpose, no pressure as I have said already, I only have free and happiness.  Computer is a human invention. It brings positive convenience, but also negative things. For me, the technology helps me avoid the bondage which is to deal with different people. Because I have bands before, members are so intelligent—it is good. However, this changed to uncontrollable, and then the important thing is that the free and happiness has gone. Too much things to associate with, in fact, it is nothing about music! I feel it is no more interesting anymore until I have found the computer technology. It changed my whole world. First, computer is always there for me, it is not gonna agree you or not, what you do with it, it presents from the AMP. This is a brand new freedom and world—I can actually do things like that! That is amazing! It gives me endless inspiration and incentive. Although it is easier to dominate the computer than with people, I am not saying I want to control it completely. Yet I would like to give up such an attempt. I would like to think the computer as a chess player, we play chess, and I prefer this way of cooperate with my computer. The computer and I are both equal. There are only art between us—not other things which outside the art. On the other hand, the computer makes me have to suffer for the painful of my eye and neck indeed,--this is also a metaphor.

6.What electronic musicians are your best? And why?
There are many excellent foreign musicians and Chinese musicians. Such as Dickson Dee, from Hong Kong, China. Not only his work, but also what he has done these years. The developments of most Chinese new music were caused by his effort. Yan Jun, now living in Beijing, hatcher of the most famous experimental music/new music/sound art event in China—, has contributed the literal of new music and provided revelation and enlighten for us. Zen Lu who is living in the same city as me, also one of the founders of the ChoP project, has made lots of abstract and peaceful works. He is a man who blends art into the daily life in deed (you should know how hard it could be in my lovely city). Other foreign artists, such as Otomo, Japanese sound artist, his insists and efforts are the light in the dark. Zbigniew Karkowski, one of your Polish geniuses, the energy in his works were really shocked me when I first listened. It brought me into a new position of thinking about art and other more things. And other more and more good artists… I think artists should have greater thoughts and spirits at first, which beyond their great works. This makes me not only listen to their music works, but also willing to know what their thoughts beyond those works (according to their literature, interview and etc.). As a result, I have the time which I can use in listening is not that much in deed—this is my shortcoming.

7.What is your favorite book?
A book which was written by Franz Kafka, and other his novella.

8.What is your way to play live – if you improvise or rather you have everything planed.
It depends on what kind of live it is. Sometimes I made materials beforehand and have a brief structure in mind, and then to mix and control freely during the performance. Sometimes it depends on what happened in the live. Maybe I will not use what I have prepared. So that should be a very good time, the incentive I can catch, I would improvise afterwards. I hope these two ways to play 50 to 50 during my live. But I will concentrate more on the later one in the future.

9.What is Your the best net site?
Google,it helps me to know new music and other interested things.

10.What do you think – where is the beginning of the electronic music?
I am not that sure about it. If look back into the history, the beginning of electronic music should be the invention of electricity. Then is the invention of speakers and microphones (pickup). If look into the style, I think the beginning is the 80s dance music maybe. I don’t think I can answer exactly because of my lack of music knowledge.
Thank you for your questions!